Black Holes As We Know Them May Not Exist
If you were to dive into a black hole (something we would not recommend), you”d likely find a singularity, or an infinitely small and dense point, at the center. Or that”s what physicists have always thought.
But now a pair of scientists suggests that some black holes may not be black holes at all. Instead, they may be weird objects chock-full of dark energy — the mysterious force thought to be pushing at the bounds of the universe, causing it to expand at an ever-increasing rate.
“If what we thought were black holes are actually objects without singularities, then the accelerated expansion of our universe is a natural consequence of Einstein’s theory of general relativity,” said Kevin Croker, an astrophysicist at the University of Hawaii at Mānoa.
Croker and a colleague describe this idea in a new study, published online Aug. 28 in the Astrophysical Journal. If they are right, and the singularity at the heart of a black hole could be replaced by a weird energy flinging everything apart, that may revolutionize the way we think about these dense objects.
The duo was not out to uncover what’s inside a black hole. Croker and Joel Weiner, a professor emeritus in mathematics at the same university, were looking at Friedmann’s equations, which are simplified from Einstein’s theory of general relativity. (Relativity describes how mass and energy warp space-time.)
Physicists use Friedmann’s equations to describe the expansion of the universe, in part because the math is simpler than in Einstein’s body of equations describing relativity. The team found that, in order to properly write down Friedmann’s equations, ultradense and isolated regions of space, like neutron stars and black holes, had to be treated in the same mathematical way as all other areas.
Previously, cosmologists believed it was reasonable to ignore the internal details of ultradense and isolated regions, such as the inside of a black hole.
“We showed there’s only one way to [construct these equations] correctly,” Croker told Live Science. “And if you do it that one way, which is the correct way to do it, you find some interesting things.”
The new results suggest that all the dark energy required for the accelerated expansion of the universe could be contained in these alternatives to black holes. The researchers discovered this in the math, after they had corrected the way to write out Friedmann’s equations. And in a follow-up paper submitted to The Astrophysical Journal and posted Sept. 7 on the preprint journal arXiv, they showed that these alternatives to black holes, called Generic Objects of Dark Energy (GEODEs), could also help explain peculiarities in gravitational-wave observations from 2016.
The math from Friedmann’s equations showed that over time, these ultradense objects gain weight simply due to the expansion of the universe, even when there is no nearby material for them to consume. Just as light traveling through expanding space loses energy — an effect known as redshift — matter also loses weight as space expands. The effect is usually so tiny it cannot be seen.
But in ultradense material with very strong pressures inside, known as relativistic material, the effect becomes noticeable. Dark energy is very relativistic, and its pressure acts oppositely to normal matter and light — so objects made of it (like these hypothetical GEODEs) gain weight over time.
“Light is sort of a weird thing. It behaves counterintuitively, in many ways,” Croker said. “People didn’t expect that this behavior could also be exhibited in other objects. But we showed, yes, you can see it in another object,” namely inside GEODEs.
GEODEs were first proposed as an idea in the 1960s, but the math supporting them was only worked out recently. But it turns out these weird objects could also provide a simple explanation for observed large black hole mergers. In 2016, members of the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO)-Virgo collaboration announced they had the first-ever observations of a black hole merger, but the calculated masses of the supposed black holes was unexpected — scientists expected the masses to be either much higher or lower.
But GEODEs, unlike traditional black holes, gain weight over time. If two GEODEs that had formed in the younger universe eventually collided, by the time they collided, they would have grown larger than typical black holes. By that point, the GEODEs’ masses would match the masses seen in the collision observed by LIGO-Virgo. Instead of having to conceive of a highly specific situation that led to the merger, GEODEs could provide a simpler solution to explain the observations.
Not all scientists are convinced, though. The new description of these objects is “counterintuitive and hard to digest,” Vitor Cardoso, professor of physics at Instituto Superior Técnico in Lisbon, Portugal, who was not involved with the study, told Live Science in an email. But, he added, “I like the idea of finding alternatives to black holes — it forces us to strengthen the black-hole paradigm. Also, sometimes it’s hard to find things if we don’t look for them.”
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Joseph Olson
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“95% of the Universe is composed of math particles and hyperdense equations”
The father of the ‘big bang’ said it was a hoax in a Time magazine article “Shift on Shift” in Dec 1936. Doppler ‘red shift’ does occur from angular velocity in a rotating Universe. Creating dark matter and dark energies to plug big bang math holes is NOT science.
“Mysterious Dr X says, Universe is NOT Expanding” > CanadaFreePress(.)com
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Tom O
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Oddly enough I always thought the concept of “redshift” was due to the light source moving away from the observer shifted the apparent wavelength, not that it extracted energy from it. Interesting reinterpretation, undoubtedly forced by mathematics, and not necessarily reality.
But the idea that a “mass concentration” which is defined here as a black hole is filled with the energy source that is forcing the universe to expand really challenges my imagination, even though it apparently doesn’t challenge the math. Something filled with energy that is causing the universe to expand away at an increasing rate still manages to draw in everything around it, thus draining the vicinity of matter. Excuse me if I question the validity of the proposal as well as the validity of the peers that reviewed it. Actually, this helps remind me that yes, the universe and everything in it is analog, and that those trying to describe it are working in the digital universe, which can never more than approximate it, but never define it.
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Herb Rose
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Hi Tom,
When you think about it the center of a galaxy being concentrated energy is not at all strange. All the stars in a galaxy emit energy field (magnetic) and electric fields (from mater) in all directions. These fields converge at the center of a galaxy where they become so strong they bend light (Zeeman an Stark effects) giving the appearance of a black hole. Don’t you find it interesting that quasars (The most powerful beam of concentrated energy) appear to come from the center of galaxies?
The universe is not expanding, though it may be growing. The red and blue shifts results from light traveling through changing electric and magnetic fields which causes the speed of light to change. (There is no photon or particle nature of light just an electromagnetic wave/disturbance) If light travels through fields that are growing weaker for a longer period than fields that are growing stronger it has a red shift. Conversely light traveling through fields growing stronger longer it shows a blue shift. This explains why some light have both a red and blue shift.
Herb
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Zoe Phin
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Herb,
It amazes me that you can say something sensible even though you have no idea why hot-air balloons rise. Good for you.
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Robert Beatty
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I find it interesting that this whole paper and subsequent discussion has occurred without mentioning the word ‘gravity’ once.
Until we can tie gravity into what is happening in our universe we will be stuck with ephemeral phrases like “chock-full of dark energy — the mysterious force thought to be pushing at the bounds of the universe, causing it to expand at an ever-increasing rate.” AND “These fields converge at the center of a galaxy where they become so strong they bend light (Zeeman an Stark effects) giving the appearance of a black hole.”
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Herb Rose
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Hi Robert,
Gravity is not a function of mass but of energy.
All of modern physics is based on a fallacy. The creation of the photon was due to the photoelectric effect where scientists maintained that if light was a wave it would take time to transfer enough energy to an atom to dislodge an electron. This argument is fallacious. Crystals contain ionic bonds where electrons are already separated from their host atom and there is a balance between the attractive and repelling electric forces in the crystal. A wave need only transfer enough energy to change this balance to cause an electron to be dislodged not the entire amount of energy.
It is the same as the piezo electric effect where a mechanical distortion of the bond cause an electron to dislodge. Nobody claims the pressure exerted on the crystal is enough to dislodge an electron from an atom. The current comes from the structure of the crystal, not the atoms that it is made from.
Einstein’s entire theory of light, which gave rise to black holes, expanding universe, dark mater, dark energy, etc. is wrong.
Herb
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Robert Beatty
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Herb,
“Gravity is not a function of mass but of energy.”
So the bathroom scales tells us fat people have more energy than skinny people?
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Matt
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Hi Robert Beatty.
You will also observe you are 23.281% heavier at midday than at midnight.
Much more energy at midday.
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Robert Beatty
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Good one Matt,
Sounds like something the AGW mob should be aware of.
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Herb Rose
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Hi Rober,
Yes. The energy is stored in fat.
The data used by Newton was Kepler’s law that the velocity of the planets squared times their distance from the sun gives the same value for all the planets. V^2 is an energy unit and Kepler’s law gives the energy of the sun. The mass units came from Newton to give an origin for the force he created to explain gravity.
Herb
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Robert Beatty
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Hi Herb,
Why do spiral galaxies follow flat rotation orbits rather than Kepler’s sequence?
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Herb Rose
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Hi Robert,
I don’t Know.
It may have something to do with the difference between radiated forces versus directional forces. A light will radiate in all directions and its intensity will decrease as the square of the distance. When light is converted from being radiated to a directional beam, as in a spotlight or laser, the intensity decreases linearly with distance.
Energy produces a radiated force in gravity and a directional force of magnetism Magnetism would cause objects with magnetic fields to concentrate in a equatorial plane where the strength of the north magnetic field is equal to the strength of the south magnetic field.
I have no idea if this is what causes atoms, solar systems, and galaxies to have a disc shape but I can think of no explanation for gravity to create disc shaped structures.
Herb
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jerry krause
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Hi Robert,
I have a unquestionable answer to your question: “Why do spiral galaxies follow flat rotation orbits rather than Kepler’s sequence?”
This because I have been pondering the observations of galaxies about which you study. And I have questioned why I had not recently read about Kepler’s sequence which I believed I had read about many years ago. So your question seemed to confirm that my memory was correct in this case.
Kepler’s sequence of the planetary motions is of a tiny ‘stable’ solar system and when galaxies are observed any tiny solar system, like ours, have yet to be observed according to anything i have read.
And I have read that Newton concluded that our solar system was situated so far from any other solar system so the gravity due to its ‘sun’ had little, to no observable, influence upon the planets of our solar system
Have a good day, Jerry
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Robert Beatty
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Herb and Jerry,
The traditional answer to this question is that much of space is filled with ‘dark matter’ which effectively glues the stars in a galaxy together.
My view is that galaxies consist of several regions of gravitational influence based on a central black hole, which combine groups of stars into ‘gravispheres’. The Gravispheres are then loosely attached to each other similar to a string of magnets. The overall result is that the strength of gravity varies throughout the universe, but over distances measured in light years.
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Squidly
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Hahaha .. sorry, the title just caught my funny bone
WE DON’T KNOW THEM !!! .. that is the problem in the first place. We have absolutely no clue as to what “Black Holes” really are or how they behave.
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Sonny Thorgren
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There are no “black holes” as they are described. There are however an infinite human desire to earn money, regardless of science
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MARK
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Black Holes: Budgets for State and Federal Government Projects.
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Steve Crothers
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Black holes do not exist. They are entirely the product of irrational imagination, violations of the laws of physics, and violations of the rules of pure mathematics. For example, according to the theory of black holes, a black hole has two different escape speeds and no capacity even for an escape speed, simultaneously, at the same place; which is impossible.
[1] Crothers, S.J., Black Hole Escape Velocity, Sky Scholar, 2018,
[2] Crothers, S.J., Time Warps And The M87 ‘Black Hole’,
https://principia-scientific.com/time-warps-and-the-m87-black-hole/
[3] Crothers, S.J., On Corda’s ‘Clarification’ of Schwarzschild’s Solution, Hadronic Journal, Vol. 39, 2016, http://vixra.org/pdf/1602.0221v4.pdf
[4] Dr. P.-M. Robitaille,
April 10th, 2019 – Claims of a Black Hole Image: the Day Astrophysics Died,
Sky Scholar, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kI14fpM3ouU
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Hawaii guy
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Funny how there “confirmation” of black hole recently looks suspiciously like a plasma torus., just like you’d expect in an electric /plasma universe.
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