An explosive discussion with ex-CDC scientist Norman Pieniazek
Dr Norman Pieniazek is a molecular biologist, geneticist, epidemiologist with 147 publications in virology and parasitology. Before he retired, he spent 24 years working at the CDC in the USA
He has also spent time abroad including time working in Spain and Poland.
We met up with Norman for what was planned to be a short meeting to introduce ourselves and informally discuss common interests around covid.
However, this turned into a two-hour long, wide-ranging and fascinating discussion that touched on a huge number of topics.
Early on in the meeting Norman made the wise suggestion that we record and share the discussion.
So, he hit the record button on Skype and we started again. The video, accessible below, is approximately two hours long.
Be aware that, given it wasn’t planned as an ‘interview’ or for broadcast, it is largely unstructured. However, for those short of time here is a synopsis of the discussion with a focus on what Norman said1:
Pneumonia and early treatments
- The bacterial pneumonia hypothesis suggests that early treatment – hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin and antibiotics address bacterial infection. Norman confirmed bacteria are everywhere in our bodies including in the lungs, creating an ever-present potentially hazardous predisposition that, given the right circumstances, might cause a deadly bacterial pneumonia infection.
- Well-understood remedies such as the stockpile of antibiotics, as recommended by Fauci, were cast aside in 2020. Bacterial infection can cause sepsis hence we need antibiotics. A Cytokine storm is caused by bacterial infection in the lungs, filling them with fluid; this lowers the oxygen level in the blood because of poor lung function.
- In-person diagnosis by a physician based on physical symptoms was largely replaced by the PCR test, and with the rise in tele-health visits, social distancing etc physicians stopped using stethoscopes to listen to a patient’s chest. This is an essential diagnostic tool to enable a doctor to audibly tell whether a patient has crossed the line into a bacterial infection which will then require antibiotics.
NPIs and discarded organisational memory
- Norman knew Donald Henderson who co-authored a classic work on how to best respond to a flu epidemic. Henderson and colleagues did not recommend any of the NPIs that were followed during covid because of the obvious severe health, social and economic costs. (As an aside this work was co-authored by Prof. Thomas Inglesby at John Hopkins who attended Event 201 and, oddly, recommended NPIs be used for covid – the very same ones he had rejected previously).
- Orthodox immunology was ignored – herd immunity is a fiction given there is a ‘soup’ of constantly mutating coronaviruses.
- Why didn’t scientists at the CDC question things early in 2020? Work from home restrictions meant that people at CDC couldn’t communicate and coordinate to overturn the madness being imposed from the ‘sixth floor’ top brass. You could not isolate CDC from the HSS (Health and Human Services) and it was HSS that were calling the shots.
Wuhan, bronchial lavage and PCR
- The Wuhan scientists were on a routine ‘fishing expedition’ for coronaviruses and unusual pneumonias. Why was this work being done in Wuhan? It is easier to do in China because it is legal and because there are lots of hospitals, in a concentrated area, where the population is in relatively poor health. Also, it is easier to get permission to perform a painful bronchial lavage procedure on patients to obtain pathogens in China; this is much harder to do in the USA. This procedure is done in the lower respiratory tract and guarantees higher quality samples than can be obtained using swabs, which really just measure the quality of the air that has entered your upper respiratory tract.
- To determine what pathogen is causing lower respiratory tract symptoms you should not use swabs and PCR. Why not? CDC acknowledges the inability of swabs to collect causative agents as reported by the EPIC study in these 2015 NEJM articles (one done on adults and one on children). Hence a positive result gained from a sample taken from the upper throat or the nose does not mean an infection is caused by the detected pathogen.
- In 2002-2004 SARS-COV was not subject to mass PCR testing, yet SARS-COV-2 was. PCR was used for SARS-COV but only on samples taken using bronchial lavage, but NOT from swab samples taken from the nose or upper throat.2
Virus origins – from labs or bats or neither?
- Wu et al discovered WH-Human-1 using samples collected by bronchial lavage, and next generation sequencing of the collected genetic samples, and ultimately reported it in GenBank.
- Before reporting on GenBank they published a preprint identifying the genetic sequences3, which was appropriated and found its way into the hands of Corman and Drosten, who then decided to exploit it for personal gain (via commercial PCR testing), fabricating a story about validating it against SARS-1. It was subsequently renamed SARS-COV-2. (For a proposed timeline of events see here).
- Norman thinks SARS-COV-2 is simply a beta coronavirus (a cold), one of the many thousands of cold viruses that had remained undiscovered until 2020, but which have always been ever present in nature.
- SARS-COV-2 cannot be a novel virus created in a lab or by natural zoonotic mutation. It is simply novel to detection4. As soon as the EUA approved PCR tests started to be used the virus was simultaneously discovered in a number of disparate geographical regions. There was no evidence of sudden spread.
- In effect the results of any test are as much determined by the choice of test to apply as by the presence/absence of viruses. Norman says, “you will find whatever you want to find”. Hence people will be symptomless yet will have a lot of, whatever viruses happen to be around in their nose or throat.
- The established taxonomy of viruses is unusable simply because there are so many unknown viruses circulating in the wild.
Vaccines
- The mRNA vaccine technology ended in a ‘garbage heap’, because it is extremely toxic, and was rendered obsolete by protein subunit vaccines by 2019. So, the mRNA vaccines were doomed from the start. Subunit (protein-based) vaccines have been known since the late 1970s, but Moderna, Pfizer and BioNTech needed a way to realise a return on their vast investments in mRNA. Hence the pandemic.
- Novavax is a protein subunit vaccine, based on the spike protein, which was available in August 2020 but did not get approval from the FDA. Although it is protein based it will stay in the deltoid muscle injection site. It was however approved in Canada. It may not be very good for you (and ineffective against coronaviruses), but it is less dangerous than the mRNA vaccines.
- mRNA vaccines were found to be too dangerous for animals. Also, arguments that they are a safe basis for cancer drugs are based on lies. There is a competing technology called humanised monoclonal antibodies that cured President Carter from a melanoma that had migrated to his brain and there are now 500 versions of these drugs currently available.
- Norman was told that the patent on the flu vaccines, grown in eggs, expired in 2020. Hence there was little ROI in continuing with this technology.
- Viruses are in your respiratory tract and antibodies, responding to vaccines, are in your blood. These two things do not match well because the antibodies in the blood do not get into the lungs. The immune system ‘stays away’ from the complex respiratory system that deals with the thousands of pathogens we breathe in with every breath.
Antibody and antigen testing
- Are serology studies a pointless exercise? Because of wide variation between individual’s antibody measurement only makes sense by studying change in any single individual over time.
- Testing for antibodies means nothing because antibodies in the blood cannot travel to the lungs to react.
- Testing for antigens is a cheaper and less sensitive version of the PCR test with the same limitation.
Infectious clones and bioweapons
- Norman is very sceptical of a number of covid virus theories including those by Walter Chesnut and JJCoey’s infectious clone theory, though they weren’t discussed in any great detail and were probably not characterised fully (or maybe even fairly).
- The issue with ‘infectious clones’ is that ‘you do not know what to create’ because there are millions of sequences of coronavirus so there is no ‘clonality’ and each one has 30 thousand nucleotides and there are combinatorically infinite changes you could potentially need to consider when creating a coronavirus5. It therefore isn’t possible to know what to change, via Gain of Function (GoF), to make the virus behave in more dangerous ways.
- As part of the ‘partnership for peace’ programme in 1994 Norman hired two ex-Soviet bioweapons scientists and asked them ‘how come you worked for 20 years and didn’t create any new deadly viruses?’
- They can create thousands of virus combinations, but the problem is how to test these creations. There is no way to test the billions and billions of possible changes to a virus and identify which changes to the sequence are ‘bad’. You need the phenotype, and you cannot deduce the phenotype from the genotype. So how would GoF researchers – E.g., EcoHealth alliance – know exactly what to create?
- The claim that Saddam Hussian had biological weapons was groundless and this was confirmed to Norman by Donald Henderson who was involved at the time and who said it was not possible.
- Thus, GoF claims that changes to spike protein and furin cleavage sites make a virus more deadly are fiction. It isn’t possible and there is no proof they can produce deadly bioweapons. Those advocating this position and making these claims – EcoHealth alliance (Fauci, Baric and Duszak) should get fired by their bosses for producing “not a tiger but a kitty”.
- We discussed Gulf War syndrome. Norman said people imagine anthrax is dangerous, but the ex-Soviet bioweapons researchers said to attack New York with anthrax would need 20,000 Boeing 747s flying over the city, dropping millions of tons of anthrax spores from a low height then people spreading it with shovels. The only way to infect people with anthrax is by direct means via an oxygen line or a direct injection.
- Norman said the Tokyo gas attack was successful in Japan because the terrorist used sarin, a nerve agent. The biological agents used, botulinum and anthrax, fortunately failed.
Fauci – the ‘mean midget’
- Within the CDC Fauci was called the ‘mean midget’ and during the AIDS epidemic he sunk Robert Gallo by inventing the story that Gallo had stolen the HIV virus from Luc Montagnier, thus destroying Gallo’s chances of being awarded the Nobel prize (he was also denied a patent).
- Fauci is “not stupid, he is mean”. Fauci wanted to get a Nobel prize, but he didn’t get a Nobel prize for AIDS, so he wanted it for the Wuhan virus. In January 2023 knowing that he wasn’t going to get the Nobel prize he “pulled the plug” and published this paper saying new types of vaccines are needed for respiratory infections, as an act of spite.
We learned a lot from Norman and are very grateful to him for giving us his valuable time.
You will notice that we briefly discussed the vaccines, but you will be very pleased to hear that Norman has agreed to follow up with another meeting in early December to share his thoughts on this important topic (see here for a sneak peek).
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Wisenox
| #
“Norman confirmed bacteria are everywhere in our bodies including in the lungs,”
This is applicable to the false isolation of covid using denovo assembly with targeted PCR.
In the covid lie, researchers took a BALF sample from a fake covid patient. This is a lung lavage. They then claimed to have removed human cells, thus giving the reader the false impression that the sample is pure. This sample is then treated with Trypsin, a digestive enzyme, which breaks apart the DNA from the lavage sources, and fed to the denovo assembler. The assembler can “stitch” together any DNA segments that overlap as a rule. Researchers then instructed the assembler to create SARS1 from the pool of random nucleotides. It came close, 79%, so they called it covid. That’s all it is, it never left the assembler, and it was never sequenced as an intact (single piece) of DNA.
The pool of random nucleotides is significant. The researchers want the people to believe that a new virus was found, but that’s an impossible claim as they don’t have any way of knowing where the nucleotides came from.
So, they instruct the assembler to create SARS1, that destroys the entire study right there. However, the uncertainty of DNA source material is the real deal breaker. It is impossible for me to claim that this genome is covid, if I don’t know where the nucleotides came from. They removed human cells, big deal. Lung lavages are filthy, as noted by the article above. So, how many nucleotides does the denovo assembler get to play with when creating fake covid? Billions. A single pseudomonas bacteria, which is normal flora in the lung, affords them 5 million, Staphylococcus gives them another 2 million per bacterium, and I haven’t added the ones from other normal flora, pathogenic flora, molds, fungi or small insects. The lying scientists have all of the nucleotides they need to create a fake genome to mirror the mRNA vaccine that they developed long before covid. They need the covid genome to look like the vaccine genome, or it will raise alarms. SARS1 isn’t real either, it was merely an earlier version of the vaccine, and it killed too many people. When you saw pandemics rise in animals, it was because they were testing the mRNA technology.
It is most probable that denovo assembly with targeted PCR was used to falsely create a genome that would mirror their preexisting mRNA vaccine.
It’s all a script!!!
Reply
MattH
| #
Hi Wisenox. (sagacious laughing gas).
With all the research you have done on patents and the following predictive propaganda and related motives how do you ever get time to breath.
Your comments are appreciated.
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Jerry Krause
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Hi Wisenox,
Because I have no experience in ‘life science’, I knew nothing about who or what you were. Now I will more seriously read your comments. You clearly are a scientist.
Have a good day
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JaKo
| #
Well, let me jump on this congratulatory band-wagon 😉
One can’t gas-light, with this gas as MattH mentioned — this Sage Nitro helps to ignite a useful process or to increase its power…
Just one little clarification — had them crooked scientist ever created any “full bodied” genome or was it just the pitiful (yet deadly) “spike protein” — whether for “representation” or for the Vaxx.?Too many people trusted them prior the episode of the latest covidism and now that trust is lost, for ever. Many now are sensitive to even the terms such as “virology.”
Thank for the excellent condensate of that covidan scamdemics.
Cheers, JaKo
Reply
Jerry Krause
| #
Hi JaKo,
I have become critical of others because they have been critical of my frequent mistakes. I really have a memory problem these days and I forgot that Galileo, with his problems, could write (I believe what I read) “I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn’t learn something from him.”
Have a good day
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JaKo
| #
Do not worry Jerry,
I’m grateful for your clarification, that is, that Galileo could learn at least something from me!
Cheers, JaKo
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MattH
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I was enjoying reading this article until I came across “NPI”.
Can anybody reply to what an NPI is, PLEASE, and then I might possibly complete reading what started as an informative article.
How can anybody put the energy into such a well structured article and then implode into pidgen English.
NPI? Speak English s%#@ for brains.
It is a shame that som
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eric
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NPI ? https://www.cdc.gov/nonpharmaceutical-interventions/index.html
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MattH
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Hi Eric. Thank you so much.
In other words, vitamin D, Zinc, magnesium, healthy diet and lifestyle.
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Jerry Krause
| #
Hi MattH,
You write: “How can anybody put the energy into such a well structured article and then implode into pidgen English.[?]
I ask: How can you dismiss reading Sir Edmond Hillary’s book “No Latitude For Error” when you maybe cannornot understand the full significance of the four words of the title?
Have a good day
(Corrected your e-mail spelling again) SUNMOD
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MattH
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Hi Jerry.
Read Ed’s book “No Latitude For Error” again yourself and you may be able to learn to spell your own email address.
Have a nice day.
Reply
Jerry Krause
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Hi MattH,
I, as a human, acknowledge that I make many, many mistakes because I don’t seem to be perfect as you are.
Have a good day
Reply
MattH
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Hi Jerry.
I have never claimed to be perfect. Stop being dishonest.
Joseph Olson
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The British Medical Journal is mentioning CDC/FDA/pharma racketeering again,
https://bmj.com/company/newsroom/concerns-over-cozy-relationship-between-the-fda-and-moderna/
Russell Brand puts it in context on FewTube > “Oh Sh¡t, It’s All About to Come Out”
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Carbon Bigfoot
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Joe the page was not found on the link you provided.
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Carbon Bigfoot
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$5 TRILLION IN BRIBES:
https://bestnewshere.com/pfizer-the-covenant-with-death-dr-james-thorp/
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